ATM is going to modernise at least 17 stored Peter Witts. They have been stored for a number of years at Famagosta metro depot. Many of them have already been transferred by road to Precotto tram depot before heading towards Teodosio workshops. It is very likely that when finished they will also carry the new (old) yellow livery. Good news indeed!
The following cars have been selected:
1557, 1561, 1566, 1575, 1590, 1694, 1724, 1759, 1804, 1812, 1826, 1854, 1890, 1908, 1923, 1929, 1986.
Some cars (in bad state or non-refurbished) may be sold or scrapped, though:
1508, 1541, 1592, 1631, 1819, 1846, 1857, 1867, 1921 (recently repainted in new yellow livery but wrecked in an accident on 6-JAN-2009), 1927 (non-revisione Scuolaintram), 1930, 1966 (non-revisione also fitted with trolleypole, 1989, 1997.
We used 1966 on a private charter in 2006:
Filed under: News
The following list shows the allocation of tramway types to the individual routes:
- 1928 (Ventotto)
- route 1 = 9 from Leoncavallo + 11 from Messina
route 5 = 9 from Messina (plus 8 cars 1928 bzw. 4700 from Leoncavallo)
route 9 = 7 from Messina (plus 8 cars 1928 bzw. 4600/4700 from Baggio)
route 19 = 15 from Messina
route 23 = 12 from Leoncavallo
routes 29/30 = 21 from Messina (plus 9 cars 1928 bzw. 4600/4700 from Baggio)
route 33 = 18 from Leoncavallo
- route 1 = 9 from Leoncavallo + 11 from Messina
-
1928 (Ventotto) mixed with other cars
- route 2 = 11 1928/4600/4700 from Baggio + 7 1928/4700 from Messina
route 7 = 17 1928/4800/7500/7600 from Messina + 6 7500 from Precotto
- route 2 = 11 1928/4600/4700 from Baggio + 7 1928/4700 from Messina
- other types
- route 3 = 12 4900 from Baggio + 8 4800/4900/7500/7600 from Messina
route 4 = 17 7100 from Precotto
route 12 = 8 4700/4900 from Leoncavallo + 13 4800/4900 Messina
route 14 = 15 7500/7600 from Messina + 12 4900 from Ticinese
route 15 = 21 4900/7000 from Ticinese
route 16 = 12 4600/4700/4900 from Baggio + 5 4900 from Ticinese
route 24 = 14 4900 from Ticinese
route 27 = 7 4600/4700/4900 from Baggio + 14 4700/4900 from Leoncavallo
new route 31 = 22 7100 from Precotto
- route 3 = 12 4900 from Baggio + 8 4800/4900/7500/7600 from Messina
Baggio has 59 trams allocated to service, Leoncavallo 76, Messina 116, Precotto 45 and Ticinese has 52. Total = 348 cars.
Filed under: other systems
Trolleybus 8515 (line 90) at the outer terminus at largo Labia.
When we visited the Roma – Pantano interurban earlier this month (see further below) we did also spend some time riding the other tram lines in Roma. I must say, I’m still a little confused about the ownership of the trams and buses. Yes, the Pantano line, the metro and the other non-state railway (FS or TrenItalia as they call themselves these days) electric railways (Roma – Viterbo and Roma – Lido) are owned and operated by Metropolitana di Roma s.p.a. using the Met.Ro name (this company was of course called Cotral until a few years ago, and before that ACoTral when they absorbed the old STEFER network lines).
ATAC has been the tram and bus operator in the city of Roma for as long as I can remember. Only now, ATAC is rather more like a transit authority responsible for timetables and tickets etc. The buses and trams have been moved to a new company called Trambus S.p.A.
http://www.atac.roma.it/
http://www.trambus.com/
I only witnessed this new name on a service van seen at Grotte Celoni and the articulated restaurant tram carried this name (but it also said ATAC underneath). The buses (all the new ones seem to be in silver with a red stripe, the previous deliveries are all two-tone green like most of the trams – few trams in orange survive and only some buses with the “alibi” orange stripe on the front) and trams only have stickers for ATAC.
I assume that ATAC is the holding company of Trambus and they also seem to have taken over Met.Ro (their fairly new Met.Ro logo is already being replaced by a new red logo (I call it “half an arrow”) which can be seen on all three websites mentioned above and many of the new silver buses plus some of the Pantano line cars). Maybe we will see the new name on the trams and buses eventually. Enough of the confusion – let’s have some tram pics (all taken on July 5th or 6th)…
Restaurant car 7021 at piazzale di Porta Maggiore.
Historic MRS car 2137 with the rest of the birthday party (same location).
7013 (line 5) at piazza dei Gerani terminus.
9107 is pulling out onto line 8 and was caught in via Porta Maggiore/piazzale di Porta Maggiore.
9247 on line 8 approaching the terminus at Circonvallazione Gianicolense/via del Casaletto.
9001 at the line 3 terminal loop in piazza Thorwaldsen. During the week this line is all bus (weekends see trams from here to piazzale di Porta Maggiore – the rest of the line is always bus operated at this time because of metro works). The following image shows bus 4353 at P.ta Maggiore.
We had no time for the Roma – Lido railway but a few minutes were spent at the Roma Flaminio terminus of the Met.Ro Roma – Viterbo railway (Roma Nord). One can only take photos here when no security people are visible. This is EMU 110 (leading car 109).
ATM has repainted the following 50 Ventotto cars into white & yellow (livrea biancogialla – or “canarine”). The cars are usually on line 1 but as you can see in the photos (all taken by Alessio Pedretti at the end of June 2008) they also stray onto the other Ventotto operated lines.
1504-1511-1521-1527-1530-1531-1533-1564-1580-1596
1600-1613-1623-1635-1636-1648-1662-1673
1703-1719-1725-1726-1730-1732-1747-1749-1757-1789-1794-1799
1803-1813-1822-1835-1858-1861-1862-1866-1872-1878-1895
1902-1921-1922-1926-1935-1936-1951-1993-2002
Of course there is also one more canary car – this is the historic 1503. And 1911 runs in San Francisco (renumbered 1811)!
1564 in via Cantu
1813 in piazza Cordusio
1872 in via Broletto
1803 in viale Tunisia
(updated FEB 2009)
ATM has fitted out the first 4900 series cars with air conditioning (and not just for the motorman!). The following cars have been rebuilt so far:
4951-4952-4956-4959-4960-4966-4970-4972-4977-4980-4981-4982-4985-4987-4992-4998. Note that only cars from the 4950-4999 batch are being dealt with.
Alessio Pedretti sent us these photos (all taken at the end of June 2008):
4985 in piazza Cordusio
4951 in piazza Cordusio
4966 in corso Vercelli
4985 in via Orefici
831 at piazza di porta Maggiore on its way to staz. Laziali
This is our first posting about a non-Milano subject. The 950mm interurban tram from Roma Laziali to Pantano was cut-back to the city limts late night on July 4th 2008. The last day of operation on the outer section was to have been on Sunday (July 6th) but as they had to rebuild the new terminus at Giardinetti no trains operated beyond Centocelle from Saturday morning. A new station replaces the interim platform here. From Terranova to Pantano the old interurban tramway had been rebuilt to metro standard over the last few years (the stations feature a high loading platform which has been roped off for passengers and a low loading platform area for the trams. No doubt with the recent closure these platforms will now all be rebuilt to high platform only configuration. The Pantano line beyond Giardinetti is now operated by bus replacement until the metro opens in a few years time. The frequency on the surving section has been much increased and trams now run every 4-7 minutes. Hopefully this portion will survive and there is even talk about re-gaugeing it to allow integration into the city tram network in the future. It certainly is very busy.
This is what wikipedia has to say about the history (text slightly modified):
- In March 1907 the Superior Council of Public Works gave favourable opinion (mandatory advice of Government Committee) to build the line designed by Antonio Clementi. Works were started in 1913 by the “Società per le Ferrovie Vicinali” (SFV). The first section of the railway was opened for service on June 12th 1916 from Roma to San Cesareo and Genazzano together with the branch line from San Cesareo to Frascati.
- In Roma the “SFV Station” was built on the Esquiline Hill side ofthe Roma Termini station. The service was first and third class, with four daily trains. On May 6th 1916 the branch line from Genazzano to Fiuggi was opened for service. From Roma to Fiuggi the trip-time was two hours and 45 minutes with a train departure every half hour. Other branch lines were opened for service on July 14th 1917: Fiuggi to Alatri-Frosinone and Fiuggi to Vico nel Lazio-Guarcino. In 1943/1944 the Roma-Fiuggi railway was partly destroyed by Allied bombing. In 1945 the line was opened again for service. In 1982 the branch line Genazzano-Fiuggi was closed, followed in 1983 by the line Pantano-Genazzano.
The line is now operated by Met.ro and they call it the Ferrovia Roma-Pantano. I wonder if they have to change the name. With the cut-back to the city limits the line now operates within Roma alone. The depot is located at Centocelle. New metro line C is being built right now and the eastern end of it will take over the outer end of the Pantano line. Despite the railway title the line is really an interurban tram – like the Desio and Limbiate lines in Milano it features little street running and the rolling stock is a mix of light railway and tramway stock.
The older rolling stock has been modernised heavily in the late 1950s to mid 1960s and as of 2006 consists of:
2 motor cars from the 1920s: 01 to 03
3 motor cars built by Ansaldo Breda in 1989: 820 – 822 – 823
5 motor cars from the 1920s: 103 – 104 – 105 – 106 – 110 plus trailers
6 motor cars built by Firema in 1999: 831 to 836
8 motor cars from the 1920s: 420 – 421 – 422 – 423 – 424 – 425 – 426 – 428 plus trailers
The 1920s cars usually run in pairs of 2 (01-03, 1xx) as motor + control trailer sets. The 4xx cars run in pairs of 3 cars with the motor car in the middle between two control trailers. The trailers have their own fleet numbers but a new feature seems to be the numbering of all sets in the 0x/1xx/4xx series (i.e. even the trailers carry the fleet number of the motor car). This is what we saw in July:
01 = 121+01+054
103 = 085+103+107
106 = 104+106+082
110 = 109+110 in old blue livery
420 = 064+420+062
421 = 063+421+056
423 = 060+423+061 in old blue livery
424 = 068+424+071
425 = 066+425+069
428 = 052+428+065
not seen (in depot)
02 = 123+02+58
03 = 122+03
105 = 101+105+084
422 = 057+422+051
426 = 059+426+067
429 = 050+429+055
A complete list of the current rolling stock can be found here:
http://www.ilmondodeitreni.it/mioforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2701&whichpage=6
Here are some photos of the last day of operation of the outer section (photos not easy to take as the security people did not like it – as on all metro system in Italy photography is not allowed without a permit and the outer section has metro statiions. No such problems on the tramway section…) and some pics of the service on the following two days.
Pics taken July 4th 2008 at Pantano:
control trailer 069 (with 425 and 066) about to reverse
unidentified 4xx set leaving the station for Roma Laziali
“set” 01 reversing at the end of the viaduct (control trailer 054 at the front)
“set” 01 with control trailer 121 at the back heading towards Roma
834 heading towards the reversing siding
822 heading towards the reversing siding
834 entering station from reversing siding
822 awaiting return trip to staz. Laziali
822 heading towards Roma passing the high platform loading area
825 leaving the reversing siding
Pics taken July 4th 2008 at Grotte Celoni:
“set” 423 with control trailer 061 at the back heading towards Pantano
833 entering the station from Pantano
833 heading towards Roma Laziali
Pics taken July 4th 2008 at Finocchio and S. Antonio
832 heading toward Roma. Finocchio is the only underground station on the already built metro section.
“set” 106 with control trailer (or is it a motor car as well?!) at the front heading towards Roma
“set” 424 with control trailer 071 at the front at S. Antonio heading towards Roma. This station (one east of Giardinetti) is the only stop on the abandonded stretch that will be replaced by a new underground station still to be built.
The rest of the pics were taken in July 5th and 6th on the surviving line
“set” 01 with control trailer 054 leading approaching Giardinetti from Pantano
motor car 421 at Centocelle
control trailer 082 (”set” 106) inside Deposito Centocello
“set” 423 with control trailer 060 leading at Ponte Casilino heading towards the temporary terminus at Centocelle
“set” 423 with control trailer 061 at the back at piazza di porta Maggiore heading towards Centocelle
“set” 425 at piazzale Labicano (Porta Maggiore)
motor car 110 (”set” 110) at Roma Laziali terminus
how much longer will Pantano be shown on the destination?
a surprise find at a camping site near Centocelle (one station west of it): Routemaster RM1176 from London
The new end of the line can be seen here:
http://www.ilmondodeitreni.it/mioforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2701&whichpage=37
More pics taken during the last days:
- http://www.ilmondodeitreni.it/mioforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2701&whichpage=30
http://www.ilmondodeitreni.it/mioforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2701&whichpage=29
http://www.ilmondodeitreni.it/mioforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2701&whichpage=28
stop press: Met.Ro has renamed the line to “ferrovia regionale Roma-Giardinetti”.
Filed under: Portraits
Ok, now a short historic review of the Peter Witt cars in Milano. The ultimate Ventotto story was written by Guido Boreani of Milano (published in Italian as “Un tram che si chiama Milano” by Calosci Cortona in 1995), unfortunately this is a little difficult to find now.
In the late 1920s Milano needed to replace it’s old fleet of short two axle (single truck) tramcars of the Edison type (500 motor cars and 300 trailers built between 1895 and 1910). They looked around the world and found the so-called Peter Witt design (named after the man himself, he worked for the streetcar company in Cleveland/Ohio, USA). By 1912 Cleveland had built the first prototype of this car which featured passenger-flow. Passengers entered at the front and paid on leaving through the centre doors (a sitting conductor operated those doors). There were no doors at the back of the car but plenty of seats (the front of the car only had longitudinal seating and lots of standing room). Local company Carminati e Toselli in via Procaccini was ordered to build two prototypes in 1927. The first had General Electric equipment and the other Westinghouse.
The tests with those two cars were successful and a large order was placed with 6 builders in 1928. Carminati & Toselli were to build 110 cars (1503-1612), Ernesto Breda (Milano) another 110 (1613-1722), Officine Meccaniche (Reggio Emilia) 50 cars (1723-1772), OM Milano another 110 (1773-1882), Tallero (Milano) yet another 110 (1883-1992) and Lodigane (Lodi) the last 10 cars (1993-2002). The new class of tramcars received two names: 1500 class or “Carrello” (Italian for bogie/double truck). As mass production started in 1928 they also received the name “Ventotto” (Italian for 28). One of the Breda cars went to Frankfurt in Germany in 1929. It operated (equipped with a pantrograph) on route 23 between Heddernheim and Schauspielhaus. It was not a success there and returned to Milano (nobody seems to know for sure which car this was!). Breda also built an additional car for Brussels in Belgium. It arrived in 1929 as ran as no.5001 on route 15 between Nord and Midi. Instead of ordering these cars from Italy the Belgians used it to build their own fleet of class 5000 cars instead, the Ventotto was renumbered 5000. The car was sold to Madrid in Spain in 1935 where it ran on route 71 Ventas – Rosales (as their no. 1001, later as no. 1000 and in the end again as 1001). It survived until 1965.
<< click to enlarge
By 1932 502 “Carrelli” operated in Milano. Somehow the passenger-flow did not quite work for the people of Milano, the car was always full at the front but few people rode in the back of the car. So in 1932 cars 1529 and 1530 were rebuilt with a single door at the back (keeping the seats in the back). In America some Peter Witt cars had been built with this feature as well. In 1929 car 1529 was rebuilt again, this time longitudinal seats replaced the regular setas in the back of ther car and this became the “smokers saloon”. Later all cars were rebuilt and received double doors at the back, entrance was at the back and exit through the centre and front doors. The conductor was moved to sit by the back doors.
During the second world war a lot of the Peter Witts got damaged and some even ran as non-motorised trailers (behind Peter Witt cars or behind 600 series two axles cars). Nearly all the cars were rebuilt after the war and today none of the fleet numbers match the original builder. They used what they had to get those cars back into service, even if they had to build completely new underframes and bodies, 204 cars were completety rebuilt!
In the 1970s the Venttos were equipped with pantographs in addition to the trolleypoles (called “Perteghetta” in Milano) they had since new. Also the two-tone green livery they had received since the 1930s (only very few cars ran in the old white and yellow livery when they were young!) was replaced by the country-wide “transit orange”. The 1970s also saw the first scrapped cars. More modern and longer trams had been introduced and the number of “Carrelli” slowly but steadily decreased. By the 1980s the trolleypoles disappeared.
1984 not only saw the first low-floor car in Italy (built by ATM using two Peter Witt cars) but also the first of many Ventotto to be sold abroad: car 1834 went to San Francisco! 100 years of eletric trams in Milano was celebrated in 1993 by repainting car 1723 into the old two-tone green livery.
More details will follow when we present you portraits of individual cars.
<< click to enlarge
Filed under: Links
There are various sites on the web that deal with the Milano trams. Here is a small selection of what we like best:
Central Station by Ivan Furlanis:
http://digilander.libero.it/CentralStation/
(unfortunately, this site has not been updated since 2003)
there is also a great “track” map available on Ivan’s seite:
http://digilander.libero.it/CentralStation/maps_files/milano_04.gif
Market Street Railway San Francisco:
http://www.streetcar.org/mim/streetcars/fleet/milan/index.html
(this includes a list of the Ventto cars in service there)
Milano tram videos on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=milano+tram&search_type=
Peter Witt page on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Witt_streetcar
ATM website:
http://www.atm-mi.it/ATM/eng/Informarsi/Info+viabilita/Informazioni/05_12_07_livery_original.htm
(this opens the special page – in English – that explains the historic white & yellow livery that is currently being re-introduced)
I tram nella Brianza:
http://www.clubtrenibrianza.com/tram_index.htm
Blickpunkt Strassenbahn report (from 2003) by your webmaster about the Milano interurbans:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040803053118/www.blickpunktstrab.net/report12_e.html
(the article is long deleted and a little out of date but thanks to webarchive.org it survived…)
Blog entry (in Italian) with list of the stored fleet at Famagosta metro depot:
http://www.solotreni.net/engine/viewtopic.php?t=4623
(translate it online at www.altavista.com/babelfish)
Story (in Italian) of the Milano metro:
http://www.metroitaliane.it/storia_mi.html
Italian Website with various articles (many in English) on Milan’s public transport:
http://www.milanotrasporti.org/
nycsubway.org pages about Milano (with photos by Peter ehrlich and others):
http://world.nycsubway.org/eu/it/milan.html
(the text is not quite up-to-date but still worth visiting just for all those great pics!)
ditto about the Interurbans:
http://world.nycsubway.org/eu/it/milaninterurban.html
and their pages about the San Francisco historic fleet (includes Ventottos and other cars):
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/sf/muni-marketfleet.html
Filed under: Fleet List
<< click to enlarge
700 rebuilt into historic car 609
701 mess#
702 leon#
703 fama
704 leon
705 leon#
706 mess#
707 dem
708 fama
709 mess (rebuilding into 1300 series trailer envisaged in the future)
710 mess
711 bagg
712 bagg
713 leon#
714 teodosio
715 teodosio#
716 tici
717 mess
718 tici
719 mess#
720 dem
<< click to enlarge
3111 trailer des*
3114 trailer des*
3129 rail grinder trailer teodosio#
3131 trailer des*
3137 tank car trailer teodosio#
3148 track transporter trailer teodosio
3149 rail grinder trailer ???
3150 track transporter trailer teodosio
- (not numbered) tower trailer mess
- (not numbered) Windhoff tractor leon#
# = last seen there in July 2007 (workscars do move to another depot from time to time!)
* = withdrawn or accident victim
bagg = stationed at depostio Baggio
cons = survives in a museum
dem = scrapped
des = stationed at deposito Desio
fama = stored at metro deposito Famagosta
leon = stationed at deposito Leoncavallo
mess = stationed at deposito Messina
prec = stationed at deposito Precotto (or stored there)
ssp = special car
teodosio = stationed at Officina Generale Teodosio (main works)
tici = stationed at deposito Ticinese
var = stationed at deposito Varedo
note: other codes may describe out of town or foreign locations
<< click to enlarge
